tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6130830332820181818.post747280112437869847..comments2024-03-27T13:13:25.164-04:00Comments on johnshaplin: Why Socrates Died by Robin Waterfieldjohnshaplinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17618981988062495637noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6130830332820181818.post-12951768059207989332009-12-28T16:13:44.855-05:002009-12-28T16:13:44.855-05:00"Along with the rest of the Three Thousand, h..."Along with the rest of the Three Thousand, he was offered the chance to retire to Eleusis, with no further retaliation for his wickedness. He did not have the common decency to take up the offer and avoid this trial; since he chose to stay and to appear in court, he deserves the death penalty. If you do not kill this man, you connive at the moral malaise that has gripped our fair city and which we are now doing our best to combat, and you will fail to deter future oligarchic revolutions, masterminded by this man or yet others of his circle. Look, even now he counts among his followers at least one relative of Critias, young Plato. It is up to you to protect our youth, the future of the city, by condemning this man to death."<br /><br /><br />Socrates was persecuted as a scapegoat, as prime figurehead in the inter-generational conflicts that arose in Athens during his life. and as a representative of the anti-democratic, oligarchical political factions whose machinations almost destroyed democracy and brought much ruin to the city of Athens.<br /><br /><br />"Why Socrates Died; Dispelling The Myths" by Robin Waterfield; W.W. Norton, 2009johnshaplinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17618981988062495637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6130830332820181818.post-38493485184587274932009-12-28T16:13:14.074-05:002009-12-28T16:13:14.074-05:00"It is well known that he mocks, and teaches ..."It is well known that he mocks, and teaches other to mock, the lottery (offices in government were filled by lottery), the basis of our democratic egalitarianism and token of our trust in the gods. As if he were a loyal citizen, he says that the lottery actually harms the city. He wants to see a few men of knowledge in charge of the city- and what would we call that if not oligarchy? He has been know to favour Sparta and Spartan practices, which brings us back to the elitist pederasty that he perpetuates. He is so far from encouraging his followers to play a part in the public life of our city, that by his very example as well as his words, he gets them to prefer idleness to undertaking their civic duties.<br /><br />So far I have spoken in general about his followers. Let me know be more specific. Socrates was the teacher of Alcibiades and of Critias. I scarcely need to remind you of Alcibiades deeds. This was the man who aspired to tyranny himself, instigated the oligarchic coup twelve years ago, profaned our most sacred Mysteries and may well have desecrated the herms. This was the man who aided both the Spartans and the Persians in their military efforts against us. This was the man who was cursed and banished, as a monster of impiety, and who was scarcely restored by you, in your lenience, to our city, when his tyrannical ambition again raised its vile head and you rightly saw fit to banish him once more. Alcibiades was responsible for almost all the terrible things our city suffered during the war.<br /><br />As for Citias, the terrible events he masterminded are too recent for you to need any reminders. He wanted to turn us into a satellite of Sparta; he wanted to wipe the slate clean of democracy and start again. In pursuit of his vision, he mercilessly killed fifteen hundred citizens and stole the property of many more, whom he sent into exile. All Athenians of sound hearts and minds rose up in rebellion against him. What did Socrates do? He stayed in Athens; he stood by and watched as Critias drove Athenians out of the city, stole their property and murdered their kinsmen. And why did he stay? Because Critias was one of his pupils- as were Charmides and Aristotle, men of scarcely less evil repute. Indeed, it would probably not surprise you to learn that many of Critias's ideas were gleaned from his master.<br /><br />He will tell you that he is no teacher, and so that he never taught Alcibiades and Critias. He will call on his famous poverty to witness that he has never accepted any money for teaching- when it proves only his utter eccentricity. He will tell you that a teacher should not, in any case, be blamed for his students' views. He will tell you that his views are not subversive or atheistic- and in fact that there is no one in Athens more moral and upright than him, a claim I will not even bother to address. But is it just a coincidence that Alcidiades and Critias held views that were so similar to those of their master? Did they pluck them out of thin air? Everyone believes that teachers- not teachers of facts, but teachers of opinions, as he was- are responsible for their students' views. If he denies this, it is just another example of his contempt for what we, the common people, believe.johnshaplinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17618981988062495637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6130830332820181818.post-44221861468456906282009-12-28T16:12:44.020-05:002009-12-28T16:12:44.020-05:00This is something like what the prosecutor Anytus ...This is something like what the prosecutor Anytus said at Socrates' trial, according to the pamphlet composed by Polycrates, long dismissed but now re-credited:<br /><br /><br />" Gentlemen, I will not take up much of your time. My friend Lycon, whose record on behalf of the city is known to you all, has yet to speak. Besides, you have already heard Metetus speak, and demonstrate that this man before you, Socrates of Alopece, is an out-and-out atheist, the leader of a weird cabal, and a sophist who teaches young men corrupt and subversive skills- teaches them to bypass honest citizens such as their fathers and their family friends in favour of his new-fangled, impious and immoral notions. He is no true citizen, but an acolyte of a god not recognized by the state. But I will say no more about the charge of impiety, so ably covered by my colleague, and will focus on the charge of corruption.<br /><br />I do not need to take up your time because in all likelihood you already know what kind of man Socrates is; you have seen him in the Agora, surrounded by a gaggle of effeminate, lisping young men, and a scattering of emaciated older men. He also hangs out in the gymanasia, but I doubt many of you have seen him there, because you have better things to do with your time than ogle boy's bodies. And what does he do? What how does he put on for his audience? He latches on to one of you and forces you to submit to his questions. And these are not innocent questions. No, he does not ask you the time of day or the way to Taureas's wrestling-school. To the great amusement of his disciples, he ties you up into sophisticated knots and shames you, claiming to demonstrate that none of us knows what goodness is. He cleverly gives the impression that he himself does have such knowledge, though no one has ever heard him say what it is.<br /><br />He supports his slippery arguments by reference to the anti-democratic poets, and by these means he claims to show that our inherited values, which have nursed our fair city to greatness, are so riddled with inconsistencies as to be worthless. He perverts the ideas of our most noble poets, making out that Hesiod claimed that one should commit crimes in order to make a living, while our forefather Homer made Odysseus out to be a thief, said that the very Trojan War was a form of theft, and encouraged the thrashing of poor people- of you, the honest citizens of Athens. Well, let me remind him of what the great Hesiod said: 'Often all the citizens of a community suffer as the result of one bad man."<br /><br />And there can be no doubt that this man has harmed our community. Our city is founded on the values of our fathers- yet Socrates teaches young men to ignore their fathers as useless, as incapable of teaching virtue, and encourages them to despise the laws and traditions...Socrates says that clever sons should restrain their ignorant fathers, in case their ignorance leads them to harm themselves. He equates ignorance, as a form of mindlessness, with insanity, and so calls you all insane!.. It is hardly going too far to say that this man is solely responsible for the inter-generational conflict that so afflicted our city a few years ago. He and he alone plunged the city into the crisis from which it is only now recovering. We must make sure that he does nothing to undermine this recovery."johnshaplinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17618981988062495637noreply@blogger.com